Michelle Lomas
Commission Factory.
Michelle Lomas
Congratulations. It's no easy feat getting into a really incredible brand like lululemon. But obviously they've seen something in you, which we're gonna talk about today because you really have.
Verity Rowe
No, not really that long. Although it does feel like an age.
Michelle Lomas
And so why don't we talk about it. When you started at lululemon, obviously you've got quite a breadth of experience, so what was it like when you got in there, and especially with your background, what were the first things that you were thinking about?
Verity Rowe
When I first started at lululemon, I was the first internal hire in the Australia business for the digital marketing team. Previously, the digital marketing strategy and implementation had all been handled by agency or freelancers. I was really starting with a new role and built the strategy from the ground up.
Michelle Lomas
Oh, totally. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, I would be so excited and pumped for it, but also terrified.
Verity Rowe
That was probably the two biggest feelings I had when I first started. I was interviewing through the early months of 2020, so January and February.
Michelle Lomas
I think. I don't think I wore anything else. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was like, that was it. Wake up. Yeah, take your pajamas off, put your active wear on. That was my uniform.
Verity Rowe
You were not alone. We all did the same thing, especially working from home. You had to be business at the top. Comfort at the bottom.
Michelle Lomas
You're such a big global organisation. Maybe people don't underestimate just how widespread lululemon is across the globe. What were the things that were kind of happening at the time that you could lean on, and then what were some of the things that you had to I guess put simply Australian-ify
Verity Rowe
Yes, we're a Canadian company and we're massive in North America across women's and men's wear, which a lot of people are actually surprised to find out. We do men's wear being a brand that was kind of grounded in women's yoga originally, the awareness of our men's wear range is somewhat small in comparison to our women's wear range, which we're working really hard to change, but I think there's still a bit of work to go there in terms of leaning on our teams in North America, in Europe, and in Asia was really helpful for me when I first started in kind of understanding what strategies do and don't work for our market.
Michelle Lomas
Yes. I live in Bondi, which is classic lululemon territory. Right. You've got the mums that basically go for a walk on the beach and then go meet their girlfriends and then go drop their kids off and they basically live in lululemons.
Verity Rowe
Exactly. You summed it up perfectly.
Michelle Lomas
I've done a lot of customer journey mapping in my time. And I'm also kind of probably your target market. So I mean, I think it's really interesting 'cause you stepped into this role and it was a performance marketing role, right? You really had to really ramp up what you were doing in performance marketing.
Verity Rowe
Yeah. So we consider ourselves sort of like a premium offering. You know, we believe in our products, we've put a lot of work into the development of our products. So for us, selling our product is more about communicating its benefits rather than kind of leaning into driving price conscious sales.
Michelle Lomas
I think Lululemon is one of those brands that it has a cult status in its own right.
Verity Rowe
Yeah, I think you are definitely right, if you're kind of like a new business, new starter and your brand name's not well known, that can be a real challenge.
Michelle Lomas
I mean, it's great advice for anyone out there looking to create a new athleisure wear brand or any brand really. I think what Lululemon has done very well is found a way to infiltrate culture. And so if that's something that you wanna stand by, you just have to be much more clever about how you become that product that is part of culture.
Verity Rowe
Yeah, so we obviously work across real spectrum of channels. We're pretty much in every digital marketing channel that we could be in.
Michelle Lomas
I've used that analogy a lot in the past of a leaky bucket. Yes. So if you are not focusing just as much on your retention and your lifetime value of your customer, you're just gonna continue to leak those customers. There's something really interesting that you mentioned when we caught up earlier about that customer journey and how your personalizing the website experience.
Verity Rowe
Yeah, I mean, I think personalisation is one of those topics. It's a hot topic in the digital marketing world, and I think it's one of those ones that goes hand in hand with privacy and understanding how your data's being used.
Verity Rowe
I mean, you wouldn't be alone. So I think that is a really simple way. So simple. To ensure, especially for e-commerce. Where you don't have that ability to kind of talk with the retail team about what you are looking for. I mean, for us it was like one way that we could bring that kind of store style experience to our e-commerce website.
Michelle Lomas
What I love as well is it recognises that each of your customer is different. And so they're going to be using it in a different way. Some will really just wanna use it to look stylish when they go have, you know, brunch with their girlfriends. Whereas others are, you know, active. They're out there and they're, you know, at the gym every day and they want a really good quality legging that's gonna last the distance.
Verity Rowe
No, I didn't. I was brand new to affiliate marketing when I joined lululemons. When I first started, my manager said, oh, like you've got all this great experience on performance marketing channels. By the way, you're also gonna be managing our affiliate program. I thought, nothing like a challenge. I've always been one to learn.
Michelle Lomas
I love that we are all eternally learning, and so it's totally okay to step into a role where you have to do something you've never done before.
Verity Rowe
Without giving too much away, we're across the full spectrum of publisher styles. So I would say when I first started, it was really easy to lean into kind of cash back because of the performance that you get out of it.
Michelle Lomas
Yeah, and there's that brand alignment too, right? Because there are a lot of premium properties. I mean, you can get access to our media properties, you can get access to Qantas rewards, like there are a lot of premium spaces where you can still promote your product with an affiliate approach.
Verity Rowe
Absolutely. I mean, we have such great relationships with some of those publishers that you mentioned, and they really are premium brands in their own right brands like Qantas, Are Media, you know, they've got all those massive premium publishing houses that they work with, which you think of magazines that you would only dream of getting into.
Michelle Lomas
And again, I think that comes down to the conversation we've been having about culture, right?
Verity Rowe
Oh my gosh. It has completely transformed. I would say my initial understanding was so limited. I came really from that traditional digital marketing background. I was pretty much just, you know, Google and Facebook.
Michelle Lomas
Yeah. I love what you mentioned before about working with different influencers and partnering with them, so not just working with them, partnering with them, and using their expertise as a way to communicate new product launches.
Verity Rowe
Absolutely. I think the influencer space, you could have a whole podcast on that as well because I think. It drives so much more authenticity from like an influencer perspective when you create relationships that are more ongoing versus a one and done style partnership. Yeah, and I think from the consumer perspective, when I see influencers who promote just any old brand and they just are like one than the next one and the next one shocking.
Michelle Lomas
Yeah, I think the affiliate approach is a great way to get into the influencer marketing game rather than looking at a reach perspective because it doesn't matter. You can hit a great influencer, but I mean, I'll use an example. I saw one the other day, Melbourne Mother, beautiful home, quite wealthy, busting out the Old El Paso to cook to her kids, and I'm like, there's no way on Earth, you are cooking Old El Paso for your kids. Especially because she was talking about going to a one of Melbourne's best restaurants yesterday. Do you know what I mean? And so there's an inauthenticity there that sure she's got the reach and sure your brand was seen, but did anyone actually A, believe that, and B, does that help your brand or hurt your brand?
Verity Rowe
Yeah. Absolutely. I think targeting influences in your strategy that have that really engaged following is so much more important than going after influencers that just have a massive follow, account engagement would definitely be more important than reach because that's not your target audience.
Michelle Lomas
Yep. I have one last question and then we'll wrap. I promise. Regarding affiliate, though, I know you guys are doing some really good stuff in the attribution modeling space, so I know you're not allowed to tell me too much, it's top secret, but can you say what you can about some of the really interesting ways that you are looking at affiliate and how it is driving, not just performance metrics, but awareness and loyalty.
Verity Rowe
Yeah, so I think it's so easy for brands to measure their impact at that last touch level. That's what you see in Google Analytics when you're looking in your affiliate dashboard, such as the Commission Factory dashboard. You see that kind of post click model. I think using data driven and multi-touch modeling to understand the impact that not just the affiliate space, but all of your marketing channels.
Michelle Lomas
Finally, more brands are doing that hey? Yeah, it's really interesting, everything that you've talked about. You know, a brand here doesn't price promote. It does stick to its guns, it does stick to its values. You know, we are a premium property, and that's what we do yet using affiliate marketing, which for many people is still considered a price promotional channel, which it's not.
Verity Rowe
Hopefully. I hope I've been able to share some of my knowledge.
Michelle Lomas
Well, if it all started from you listening to podcasts, then I hope it might start for a few others out there stepping into a role and going, oh, where do I start? Well, you listen to this one and hopefully get some inspiration.
Verity Rowe
A hundred percent. And if you have imposter syndrome, you're not alone. We all have it.
Michelle Lomas
Oh, mate. All the time. Well, thank you, Verity. Thank you so much for joining us. Really great chat and look forward to seeing where to next with lululemon.
Verity Rowe
Thanks so much for having me. It's been great.
Michelle Lomas
Well, that's a wrap for season two.