Michelle Lomas
Commission Factory.
Joel Leong
Cool. Firstly, thanks for having me here and thanks for supporting Shopback. Get more people in your circle to use it.
Michelle Lomas
I'm, I'm a big passionate advocate, don't you worry.
Joel Leong
That's a good thing.
Michelle Lomas
Huge stuff going on. A huge amount to unpack there, which we will. So we'll talk about a few of those pieces in a moment.
Michelle Lomas
And it wasn't in APAC and I just couldn't, I couldn't stop laughing cause I was like, I'd never hear that. There's always some sort of like, you know, real deep story behind a founder's story and you're like, We were just looking for something successful and this was it.
Michelle Lomas
Well done to you.
Joel Leong
Yeah. The other one is that, you know, the other, the idea might not be a viable one. And that's why people have tried. They failed and have not succeeded. So, if you are able to eliminate the idea risk, meaning that you find an idea that has actually worked well in multiple geographies, not just one, because one could be an anomaly, but if you see it working in multiple geographies, then actually it seems like the idea is viable.
Michelle Lomas
I love that and I hope that everybody listening sort of gets something out of that because we do often have founders on here and you know, their stories are genuine and they've built something beautiful off the back of something that's really meaningful to them. But also, if you're heading into business, it's okay to just head into business with a smart strategy. You don't always have to have kind of some really compelling reason behind it that's gonna spur you forward in that aspect, rather just being really smart.
Joel Leong
Yes, correct. And I really agree with you on that be because at the end of the day, it's always about the customer. And, you know, if you have a viable idea that's running, in the end, the customer wins because there is a positive flyer that goes there.
Michelle Lomas
Let's talk about the model of Shopback, because there is sort of, there's a good groundswell of awareness, but there's also mixed awareness in this market.
Joel Leong
Cool, cool. So what we do is we build a platform and have a membership base of users. And for these users, what we do is we create offers for them and this offers come in the form of cashback and how these cashbacks come along is that they are funded by the merchants, right? So if you think from the retailer's point of view, there's a pool of users that Shopback has, and Shopback is actually a platform that people use for shopping. You don't come to Shopback to read the news, check the football score, come here and watch videos.
Michelle Lomas
It's like a win-win for everybody, isn't it? You know, I'm a consumer, I love more cash. You know, retailers love more customers. I mean, if I think about how I use Shopback, and, and I'll admit, I often forget to click the Shopback button on those little purchases, but we always make our. Big purchases waiting for the deals to come through.
Joel Leong
So for us, we always fundamentally believe that every user that came into the Shopback ecosystem came in because we gave them a reason to use Shopback. That there must be a reason why someone uses Shopback. And uh, for now it could be because of online purchasers.
Michelle Lomas
I can't wait till you roll it out here. It's, it's brilliant.
Joel Leong
So the first thing is, I, I think we must have confidence that that product works, and it does not have to work in a particular market first, but it must work in at least one market in the shopper ecosystem. That, that, that is one of our belief, because once you know that it works, then the team has confidence when they push that product and they, they, they roll it out.
Michelle Lomas
how do you understand about your customer? Do you have a big team in-house that's constantly doing research?
Joel Leong
So we, we, we always look at like, because when you first. Do your marketing, then you will get your, the, the people with the path of least resistance would, would come in. So by self selection you would get that, that pool, and you try to understand that pool.
Michelle Lomas
you like to call them in Australia? Low hanging fruit. You could, yes. You can just pick 'em off a tree cuz they're ready to go. They're prime.
Joel Leong
Yeah. So, so I, I would say like, like these are the people that had the highest reasons or the best reasons to you Shopback and I wanna understand the reason why and, and once you understand the reasons why that then you, you can create more such reasons.
Michelle Lomas
And so, you know, when you launched here in Australia with a, with a concept, a little unique in market, which still people, you know, I talk about Shopback and. You know, users who've not been exposed, kind of go, what? You get money back for? How, how it's, it's like quite hard to get Yes. Their head around how it works and what, how do I, I don't understand.
Michelle Lomas
So it's fair to say that your customer and your product is actually your number one marketing channel.
Joel Leong
I would say so, I would say so because, um, think of it in reverse, right? If you have a really bad product, um, and, and you have a very bad customer experience, then uh, even if you do really good marketing and um, sometimes you ask your friends, Hey, you know, I heard of this product.
Michelle Lomas
they, you Shopback? I mean, it's such a simple philosophy. I guess it, it's sort of stems back from the origins of Shopback in a way as well, you know, your strategy around, you know, focus.
Joel Leong
to? Yeah. I, I, I think it's just being la Laser focused, uh, in some sense because, um, I think everyone will tell you that they have no enough time.
Michelle Lomas
do the numbers look like today? How many, how many customers are we talking about?
Joel Leong
So I think in the whole impact we have close to like 35 million, uh, users and, and we're still growing cuz we are constantly still expanding in, in more markets.
Michelle Lomas
Mm-hmm. If there's any brands or retailers on board, what do you wanna say to them?
Joel Leong
No, I, I, I, I think for me, the, the key thing is this, it's not always, there are new marketing channels or, or, or ways to, to try out. Right. And, and, and I always tell the team if there's something new to, to try out, try to understand what are the, you know, what are the upsides and the downsides, and if you, mm, if you have high upside, but very high downsides as well, okay, you gotta stop and think about that.
Michelle Lomas
It's such a no-brainer. It's just try it out. I mean, if you, you might be giving away a percentage of your profit on that sale, a small percentage at that, but you are guaranteed a sale.
Joel Leong
would I? Makes sense. Makes sense. So, so, so my message to thems always just try it out, right? And, and after you try it, you have data.
Michelle Lomas
And so I have to ask, how much is in your Shopback account?
Joel Leong
I have it live here now. You do? I didn't know you asked that question, but we'll see.
Michelle Lomas
I have to ask. I mean, you must be like customer number
Joel Leong
one. Yeah. I have about thousand. Oh I don't know if you can see on the screen, but it's about thousand 600.
Michelle Lomas
Well, there's a lot of things that you can buy with that. Yeah. And what a wonderful reward for shopping. Well, thank you Joel. Thank you for joining us. I think there's a lot here that any marketer can take on board listening.
Joel Leong
Thanks for having me. Right. We are really excited about what the Australian team has has built up in Australia.
Michelle Lomas
What an awesome chat with Jo Young from Shopback. Hopefully you're inspired to start saving more dollars through your shop. A few extra dollars in the account never hurt anyone. We have another exciting episode coming up. Here's a sneak peek.
Joel Leong
I was just pretty much not really experienced at a website, but it wasn't working that much naturally.
Michelle Lomas
I'm like, oh, that's huge for a startup. You're like, what? I've already paid employees and rent, and now I've gotta pay this agency. If you aren't already, don't forget to follow, so you don't miss an app.
Joel Leong
Permission factory.