Michelle Lomas
Hey there, hustlers. This week's episode is a little different to our normal programming. We like to call these a Podinar. It's basically a webinar in a podcast format. This episode was recorded from a recent life panel discussion on the growth of influencer marketing and how creators are impacting change in the way we shop and the way we market our products.
Danielle Lewis
So excited to get into this chat. It's great. Obviously scrunch, we talk about creators and influencers every day of the week, but it's so good to hear from people on the ground who are actually making it work and seeing real marketing results with affiliates, creators, and influencers. So before we get into it, just gonna do some quick introductions. My name is Danielle, I'm the CEO and Co-founder here at Scrunch. Scrunch is an influencer marketing platform and creator economy membership. So we educate people about the fabulous world of influencers and creators, help them find them, and of course, run campaigns as well.
Isabella Cavallaro
So typically a brand would come to you with a specific strategy, and then from there you'll develop a campaign accordingly. What we tend to do is source and present a brand with a range of different content creators based on their wants and needs.
Danielle Lewis
I love it. And in that description, you said the words affiliate marketing. And I know in this space, everything's starting to get a little confusing. Yeah. You know, we were calling them bloggers and then influencers. Yeah. And creators. And then we have sponsored posts and affiliate marketing.
Isabella Cavallaro
Yeah, so influencer marketing or content creation as it's like more commonly known as, as well, is a type of affiliate marketing. So when you look at affiliate marketing, it's this huge sort of definition with many different. Items in that definition. So an affiliate can really range from someone that operates in the online space, and even in more recent times in store.
Danielle Lewis
Amazing. And do you think that's one of the key distinctions is that they make commission on the sale rather than influencers who tend just to be remunerated more on just a post per basis.
Isabella Cavallaro
Yeah. So affiliate marketing is that sort of cost effective CPA, so cost per acquisition business model where nine times outta 10 you'll be, um, paying essentially the affiliate on a commission basis. So they'll need to make a sale for you for them to be awarded commission. If, for example, they generate, you know, someone to visit your website, but then that customer doesn't make a sale, there'll be no commission awarded there.
Isabella Cavallaro
So social commerce is still evolving and it's about using social media platforms to facilitate the buying and selling of a product or service. Nowadays, it's more instrumental than ever for a brand to use a range of different social media platforms to promote their products and also to sell their products to customers as well.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, it's definitely hurting my credit card.
Isabella Cavallaro
Yes, me too.
Danielle Lewis
This, uh, seamless experience from social media.
Isabella Cavallaro
Very easy. You know, more screenshots to save for later, so, yeah.
Danielle Lewis
Oh, I know. So we're painting a picture here, so I've got one for the both of you. Now we'll start with Jye this time, as I kind of alluded to, this space is changing really quickly. We used to call them bloggers, then influencers, then creators. How have you seen influencers, affiliates, creators, all the above. How have you actually seen them evolve over the last few years?
Jye Beckett
It's an interesting question, and I think our industry in particular, we've really required the assistance of influencers to really drive sales. Everything regarding weight loss, fitness and health.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, really interesting. You mentioned having to compete financially, so pay influencers more to retain them. Are there any other things that you see that works to keep influencers or creators excited about working with your brand?
Jye Beckett
The money incentive is always the biggest one. And, and regardless of what else we try, it is very money driven.
Danielle Lewis
That's awesome. I love that. Events is such a good idea. I mean, we've gotta kind of remember we're all humans and we love a bit of real life connection. That's awesome.
Isabella Cavallaro
So I think the type of content being released has definitely changed and evolved. So five years ago, for example, it was very much like the static Instagram post, the static Facebook post. It was often very polished, it was edited. Was it natural? I don't think so, but that was what it was, and it was very much aesthetically pleasing. Whereas nowadays, and I think once again, due to the introduction of TikTok especially, as well as updates to Instagram, given their stories and rules, features, and then YouTube, the ongoing popularity there, it's all about video content.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, it's really interesting and I'm just relating what you both said as well, and I mean obviously increase in financial want from the creators, but it also is interesting how that's correlated to the rise in video production as well. We always see video costs so much more because it takes so much effort to actually produce and influencers are asking for more.
Isabella Cavallaro
Five years ago, exactly. Now it's like instrumental to like a company. It's Yeah.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah. It's like a full-time,
Isabella Cavallaro
it's like a team.
Jye Beckett
Yeah, I don't think it's had that much of an impact yet. I think it probably will over the next few years as there's a lot more. But yeah, I mean if we looked at ACCC in general, I mean the last two years now they've released new regulations in regards to how brands and and creators work together. So it's like two years ago when the first one was released, 'cause it was targeted towards brands and how brands are allowed to incentivise creators.
Danielle Lewis
I'm glad you said the words that you are tightening the approval process. People talk to me all the time about should you just let a creator be creative 'cause that's what they're amazing at.
Jye Beckett
Yeah, correct. I'd agree with that. I think in the middle, I think again, in sort of, two years, it might be a little bit more towards the way of controlling over a bit more and the content reduce, but at the time being definitely sort of sit in the middle there, let them be a bit creative, but get a rough brief to run off and a few, you know, things to try and avoid.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, I love that. Guide rails are always good with creators.
Michelle Lomas
The Flex Your Hustle Podcast is made possible by the team at Commission Factory. Commission Factory is the largest performance and partner marketing network in Asia Pacific, pairing tens of thousands of meaningful and scalable partnerships. If you are listening to this show, you might be looking for ways to find and activate successful connections that drive revenue for your business.
Danielle Lewis
Another one for the both of you, but we'll start with Isabella this time. So what are some of the challenges and learnings you've seen working with creators? I know that the media loves to shine a light sometimes on the horror stories, but we like to see them as learnings so that we can implement processes.
Isabella Cavallaro
Sure. I think definitely deadlines and timelines can definitely be seen as a challenge. So obviously working in an office, you're a nine to five, five days a week. Content creators, they're their own boss, essentially, so they work to their own schedule.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, I love that because I think you're right.
Isabella Cavallaro
Exactly. Yeah. Setting expectations is probably the right way to put it, so, yeah.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Awesome. What about you Jye? Any challenges, learnings that you've seen in the space?
Jye Beckett
I see this a lot. What Isabella said is, is really true and, and pretty accurate. It probably echoes a lot of my own thoughts. I think to add to that, is touching on sort of, you mentioned about, you know, a single post, not, not doing what you want it to do.
Danielle Lewis
It does take months to actually build up something, get that new audience, get the engagement. So it makes perfect sense when we're thinking about influencers that we need to work with them over an extended period to actually see that kind of return.
Isabella Cavallaro
I think it's really important to work with a range of different affiliates. You don't wanna just focus on one vertical or limit yourself too much.
Danielle Lewis
I really like your point about the trends as well. Like it just kind of reinforces the point that setting up any kind of marketing program isn't just a set and forget. Yeah. Like actually making sure that you're consistently optimising it, reviewing your affiliates, keeping up to trends and working with them in other ways.
Jye Beckett
In short answer no, it's definitely not. It's a kind of a thing in the marketing world, right? I mean, especially digital marketing. Every three or four months there's a new thing that people were saying it's too late to start and you know what I mean?
Danielle Lewis
Yeah. Awesome. One of the questions that I always get asked about in influencer marketing is, does it work?
Jye Beckett
Oh, exactly. Yeah. A hundred percent.
Danielle Lewis
So good. I love it. Okay. Let's switch gears a little bit. This is actually a question that came in. Isabella, keen to get your perspective on the appetite of influencers and creators to be paid on commission only.
Isabella Cavallaro
Yeah, so I think it's very common to see a hybrid sort of approach.
Danielle Lewis
That's so good. And while I've got you, Isabella, we've talked about about different layers of the funnel, and we've talked about performance. How do you actually measure success across different types of influencer or affiliate campaigns?
Isabella Cavallaro
Yeah, so once again, it depends on how you're using the campaign.
Danielle Lewis
Awesome. And I love that idea too, that the strategy is going to change and what you actually do, what kind of creators you work with is gonna change depending on the outcome that you're actually after.
Jye Beckett
I guess the, the easiest way to look at it is, is I feel that probably most marketers still look at it as that, people winning sort of thing. So it, it is very rushed together as sort of, here's the influencer we want to use.
Danielle Lewis
That's the best advice. We do see so many people who say, I wanna work with this influencer. I'm like, why? You know? And it's, it's like what? You really have to start from the start, setting that strategy, understanding your goals, because that does make such a big impact. You're right. You set it earlier, um, that there are so many influencers to choose from now. Like we really, brands are actually really lucky in some sense that, you know, if somebody isn't the right fit or charges too much, there's probably gonna be somebody else out there for you. So actually understanding what your goal is first is fantastic advice.
Jye Beckett
And to add to that too, just because you did mention about there being so many creators and influencers, what the point of that campaign is.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, that's right.
Jye Beckett
Audience is gonna see the same message across 10, 11 different people, which is great for awareness. Where as if your point is direct sales, you don't really want to be working with influencers or creators that are in that same circle 'cause you've then got them competing with each other. But you're right, being at that segment, that same audience as well.
Danielle Lewis
Yeah, that's such a good point because people often say that, what about duplicate audiences? And that's a really good distinction about the awareness versus their direct sales because there is some kind of stat that consumers need to see a brand 16 times now before they actually make that purchase decision.
Jye Beckett
I mentioned it before about the amount of restrictions that are getting put into place around influencer marketing.
Isabella Cavallaro
I think it'll be more important than ever before to engage with these type of creators. What I'm sort of seeing in the news at the moment are like high profile celebrities are no longer relatable, like coincidentally, sorry to bring them up, but the Kardashians, like they were reality stars that everyone watched and related to, but nowadays they're so out of touch with reality and what and how we live versus how they live is so different that people are no longer seeing them as like relevant.
Danielle Lewis
That is actually such a good point. One of the kind of, I don't wanna call it a mistake. One of the things that I see brands do is they sent out saying, I wanna work with influencers and creators because I want it to be relatable content.
Isabella Cavallaro
Thank you for having me.
Jye Beckett
No worries. Thanks so much for having me as well.
Michelle Lomas
Thanks for listening to this special episode, featuring compelling conversations on the future of influencer marketing. Next week we're back to our regular programming and have an awesome guest for you. Here's a sneak peek.
Matthew Lloyd
I believe it's, it's almost like a bowl of pasta, spaghetti, whatever you want to call it. And if you are not in that bowl, you're not gonna get eaten by that user. Mm. And the top of the funnel, as people like to call it, is also the bottom now.
Michelle Lomas
Thanks for listening to this Flex Hustle Podinar. Give us a rate or review on your pod app when you have a moment and make sure you hit follow so you don't miss any episodes.